Alister McGrath remembers life as an atheist back in the late 1960s. He believed only what could be proven to be true. And he judged religious believers for trusting in an irrational fantasy.
Looking back, though, he can see an emotional basis for what he thought were purely rational conclusions. He didn’t want God to exist, because God would threaten his freedom. As an atheist, he could do whatever he wanted. He could be the center of the universe.
Now, as a Christian and one of the most well-known apologists in the world, McGrath sees how much desire determines what we believe about the universe. He says, “The human desire for unaccountability leads to the metaphysical conclusion that there should not be a God.”
Last summer, McGrath and I caught up when he was the keynote speaker at a Beeson Divinity School conference on persuasive preaching. I was invited to engage and respond to his presentation. Alister is a theologian and Christian apologist with a particular interest in the relation of science and faith. In fact, he recently retired as a professor of science and religion at Oxford University.
I know him as a godly encourager and kind interlocutor. I’ve learned a lot from him on various subjects, especially C. S. Lewis. I was listening to him at Lanier Library in Houston when he inspired me to begin work on a book about Lewis and Winston Churchill. So I was excited to talk with him again about atheism and apologetics and a heavy dose of Lewis.
In This Episode
00:00 – Why belief cannot always be proven
00:37 – Collin introduces Alister McGrath, atheism, desire, and C. S. Lewis
02:19 – McGrath’s move from atheism to Christianity in 1971
03:58 – Conversion as a process rather than an instant transformation
05:07 – C. S. Lewis’s “Is Theology Poetry?” and Christianity as a big picture of reality
06:30 – Christianity as aligning with the deep truths of the universe
08:01 – The New Atheists and the power of rhetorical certainty
11:06 – Why the New Atheist movement faded
13:26 – How apologetics has changed over the decades
16:29 – Tim Keller’s apologetic influence
20:25 – Integrating apologetics into preaching
23:22 – Faith versus fact—or faith versus faith?
24:28 – Enlightenment assumptions and the limits of proof
26:33 – Morality, Christianity, and secularized Christian values
28:31 – Truth, meaning, and transformative belief
30:07 – “Bleakness is not an indicator of truth”
31:53 – C. S. Lewis, Winston Churchill, and wartime apologetics
35:03 – Lewis, The Problem of Pain, and the BBC broadcasts
36:52 – Lewis’s faith, academic career, and public apologetics
39:53 – The Weight of Glory and spiritual flourishing in wartime
42:39 – Lewis on marriage, forgiveness, and the Holocaust context
45:29 – The Guardian, archives, and The Screwtape Letters
48:44 – McGrath’s storytelling apologetics and closing reflections
49:38 – Gospelbound outro
Resources Mentioned:
Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis
The Problem of Pain by C. S. Lewis
The Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis
The Great Divorce by C. S. Lewis
“Is Theology Poetry?” by C. S. Lewis
The Weight of Glory by C. S. Lewis
The Air We Breathe by Glen Scrivener
Dominion by Tom Holland
The Dawkins Delusion? by Alister McGrath
Making Sense of Us by TGC and The Keller Center
The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics
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